Official Luthiers Forum!

Cool Peter thanks, i was also asking these questions because my wife's son is suposed to get me some copper slats that are easily bendable and suposedly are great for heat transmission, i'll have to give him a call tonight! I think i saw a uke builder somewhere on the net that uses those on his bender and had great remarks about it! i'll check my favorites sites and try to post a link! Thanks again, you rock!

[QUOTE=Serge Poirier] ...my wife's son is suposed to get me some copper slats [/QUOTE]
Er...ever notice how copper turns green with oxidation? Add steam and heat, and, well....

I wouldn't worry too much about this paper as a source of silicone contamination, I used to work in a paper coating place making this same stuff. The silicone compound used is totally polymerised after the coating step and very unlikely to come off the paper, even when heated. Not saying it's impossible just very unlikely.

Silcone suspended in a polish is another thing entirely.

Serge, stay away from copper!! You will have some serious stain problems....just like Carlton said...

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Even if i wrap the wood with aluminum foil or wax paper?

I don't know if I would use Copper. I would believe there could be issues with chemical reaction with some woods and it may pregmate craft paper. not sure about wax paper.

But how about using alum. foil with copper slats Michael, do you think there would be a chemical reaction that would occur even through the foil protection?

probably not. By the way spring steel or Stainless steel will be much cheaper than Copper of equal thickness and length and the Copper will not spring back to straight and and flat. This is a big issue. If your slats are preformed it is impossible to line up flat wood in them. If you beat the copper back to flat you may leave hammer marks, when you use it again where the caul mets the slat you could get those hammer mark impressions in you sides because you are forcing that shape on the to the sides.

I use Spring Steel and discard any slat that gets a crimp in deformation in it. With spring Steel this will not happen unless it is forced grimped by accident. Spring Steel will retun to flat after many many bends. Stainless will eventaly retain a bend shape but return mostly flat and Copper, will hold the bend shape unless forged back to flat again and it will be hard to get it really flat and smooth I would think.

Thanks for your input Michael, sound advice as usual, i'll be checking if i can get me some spring steel slats then! Are these hard to bend in the cutaway part, if so, i guess i should consider using wing nuts and threaded rods on both sides along with some rounded caul to force the sandwich down in that area?

nope. .024 I think this is 20 gauge. I could be wrong it might be 24 gauge. you can get this cut to length at almost any comercial steel vendor. any city with maufacturing will have one, or Jonn Hall at Blues Creek will hook you up with either Stainless or Spring Steel. It is!! really the way to go.

If you are using a form only style bender then yes on the cauls, althread and wing nuts. I really do suggest that you build or buy a fox style bender that way you just change the form out accourding to the size and if it is a cutaway or not. there are plans out on the net for this and with two screw presses, one for the waist and one for the cutaway you can build it for $50 not counting differnt forms.MichaelP38798.6541666667

Thanks Michael, my bender is a mix of ideas but i can switch forms at will, my only problem to solve is the cutaway, but i have a pretty good idea of how i'll fix it and sure will follow your advice on the spring steel slats

I hope you can see what i mean in these 2 pics, i have 2 sets of springs and rounded cauls that should do the job on a regular shape,



but on a cutaway, i think that i'll either need threaded rods and wing nuts or build nyself some type of device like the fox bender has for the cutaway

Serge, check with John Hall....he can sell you the slats and the threaded crank for the cutaway!!

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Thanks Peter!

Are you sure that the food-grade "waxed paper" has silicone on it? That is very surprising, since I would think the company that produces it would be afraid of lawsuits from claims of everything from enuresis to cancer from ingesting it. To confuse it with parchment paper makes me think this is opaque (white or brown?) paper, and not the translucent stuff that I'm used to seeing. I was going to suggest that perhaps you have been folding the waxed side of the paper (consciously or unconsciously) to be away from the wood surface, because whether the heat is dry or from steam, paraffin will melt at wood bending temperatures. I suppose it is possible that the steam would keep the melted tiny globules of paraffin from sticking to the wood, but that sounds like quite a balancing act, especially if and when the wood gets dry enough where steam stops emanating from the wood.

Sorry to ramble on, but I am baffled as to how you have been "getting away with" using waxed paper for bending sides! From your account (ten times!), it does work, so this one gets heaped atop the pile of life's mysteries.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Dennis I was of the same mind but I have never tried it so I could be wrong as well.

Dennis, its not the waxed paper that has silicone in it.....its PARCHMENT PAPER....

"Reynolds® Parchment Paper is a grease-proof, silicone-coated vegetable parchment paper. It is excellent for baking cookies, cakes, breads or pizza, cooking en papillote, making candy, frozen desserts, seafood, poultry and meats. It works great when used to cover foods in the microwave oven. Professional bakers and cooks have been using it for years"

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Peter,

Yeah, my post is a rambling pile of confusing sentences.

The first sentence should read "Are you sure that the food-grade "parchment paper" has silicone on it?"

Then I should have started a new paragraph when I wanted to express my puzzlement with using waxed paper in a side bender.

So yes, there are 3 subtopic/issues within your original post: One, the green color change, for which I had no help and couldn't offer a comment; two, the accidental use of silicone impregnated paper, which certainly does appear to be silicone impregnated, and may prove to be a nasty problem when you finish this one; (perhaps someone cooked my food in it once, and that is why my brain harbors convoluted thoughts!), and three, your use of waxed paper, which still puzzles me as to why it is not leaving a paraffin mess on your wood.

I hope the best for the silicone contamination removal - I'd wipe multiple times with solvents on paper towel, and throw the paper towel away each time.

It appears the mysterious color change is a "skin deep", heat-induced chemical change in some wood resin, which others have witnesses and have successfully sanded out.

And, you still haven't convinced me to try waxed paper in a side bender, but I do admire your spunk!

Take care,

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Dennis, I'm not trying to convince anybody to use wax paper I am merely describing what works for me and what a mess I made by not using wax paper! My purpose of this thread was to get help to fix my mistake with bent sides. I apologize if you saw this as a way to try to convince anybody to use wax paper.

thanks

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

[QUOTE=peterm] Dennis, I'm not trying to convince anybody to use wax paper I apologize if you saw this as a way to try to convince anybody to use wax paper.

thanks[/QUOTE]
Peter,

I guess I should have thrown a smiley face in my last comment. You have nothing to apologize for, and I didn't think you were trying to convince me of anything.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia